User talk:Ixbran/Archive 1

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Dynasty Warriors Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Takamaru page. If you'd like to help out more here's a few things you can do:


 * Help complete the goals set out in the wiki's To Do List.


 * Expand articles that are marked as stubs.


 * Nominate and vote for a featured article of the month here.


 * Follow the tips listed in our style guide to improve the look and consistency of our articles!

Please note that this is an automated message. Still feel free to leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Kyosei (Talk) 04:28, December 27, 2009

Re:hihi
Sake neko is already taking the initiative to help out with the articles. By the way, and please do not take this as a personal insult, but do you think you could try using a spell checker and proof read your writing a little before making a new page? It is also "Role" not "Roll" in games. If English is not your first language I understand as that is the case with a few users here but at least try to put a little more effort into polishing an article before publishing it. Kyosei 08:34, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

I understand. i apalogise for misspelling the word Role. when it comes to sertan words, i dont know how to spell them. if its not a word i use in every day life, then its hard for me to spell it correctly when i must spell it out. ill try to do my best from now on. and thank you for trying to help. Ixbran 08:41, December 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Er you've gotten the Akasame and Ryokusame lords mixed up. The red castle lord is Akasame (the "Aka" in Japanese means red). It's one thing to make pages for characters but please don't make them for the sake of "getting credit" for making them first with mistakes. If you don't know anything about a subject then it's best you not write about something you don't understand or know. Once again taking your time and checking your information first before making a page helps. Kyosei 09:54, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

im sorry. i was just trying to help "Doing something to get credet for it" wasnt really what i had in mind. i just wanted to get them done, insted of leaving them blank. thank you for telling me. ill go and fix my mistakes. Ixbran 10:00, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Scratch that, Sake neko already has. im very gratefull for him too, its like ... 3:08 AM and i wasnt looking forwerd to correcting them. i is tiredz.Well anyway, good night to ya'll. till we meet again *stumbles off to Slumber Land* Ixbran 10:09, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Image uploading policy
Please do not see this as me personally picking on you this is just mostly me being tired of having to categorize every single image everyone uploads. As part of our uploading policy here left from the original founders, please take the time to categorize the images you upload. Adding a category to an image can be done before it is uploaded by typing in wikicode in the Summary text box. "__" is for the name of the series or particular image category you are uploading. For example if you were uploading a Samurai Warriors 2 render, you would categorize it as and so on. The category can be added after it is uploaded by editing the image file itself. Click the Edit this page button near the top left hand corner of the image page. While editing it, simply use the Add category button you see near the bottom left hand corner of the editing space to add the category.

In the future if you fail do to this, I will simply delete all the images you upload for not following the uploading rules. Kyosei 00:04, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, i guess i was just in a hurry. though i have a quiestion, dont know if you can anwser but still. its SW3 related, i was wondering ; how many Tanuki do you have to collect in order to unlock the 4 Lords designs for edit mode?

o - o Ixbran 00:46, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't need three pictures for the same exact outfit though. Plus, she isn't the only one who has this outfit again in DW7. This has already been linked and covered on the actual DW7 page and in the downloads section of the actual official website. The only other outfit she would need to put again in her gallery is her original downloadable outfit, whatever that is going to be. Sake neko 21:35, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Dynasty_Warriors_7 has the links to DLC renders, but the data itself is already on the official Japanese DLC dedicated section. A few of these DLC options are mentioned in the weapons page. If you want to know what they are/what they have planned for the Japanese servers, here's a translation:
 * Unlisted but available for Japan on May 28th -> Fan request BGM set = PARADE OF DEATH, MY BAD FELLOW, ARENA, ENDLESS FIGHT
 * Undecided after PS Network restores - assorted items
 * Original costume set Wei (500 yen) <-this was available around May 25th
 * Original costume set Wu (500 yen)
 * DLC weapon = Great axe (100 yen)
 * DLC weapon = Sai (100 yen)
 * Additional weapon models for existing weapons #1 (100 yen)
 * Additional weapon models for existing weapons #2 (100 yen)
 * Undecided after PS Network restores - two items
 * DLC weapon = Wolf fang pole (100 yen)
 * Hu Lao Gate Scenario (Dynasty Warriors 2 remake) - three different maps (200 yen)
 * April 21st - two items
 * DLC weapon = Short-handled Halberd (100 yen)
 * DW4 outfits for all characters + Warriors Orochi Z outfits for Cao Pi, Xing Cai, Ling Tong, and Guan Ping (Free)
 * April 14th - two items
 * DW4 BGM set = HEAVY GAUGE, STRAIGHT AHEAD, BLOODSHED TO REPEAT, RUNNING FIGHT (Free)
 * DLC original scenario centered on Meng Huo: San Jiang Castle - three different maps (200 yen)
 * April 7th - two items
 * Yellow Turbans Scenario (Dynasty Warriors 2 remake) - three different maps (200 yen)
 * DLC weapon - Bombs (100 yen)
 * March 31st - two items
 * DW5 BGM set = GLOOMY SHADOW, THE KING OF SADNESS, A RISING FEELING, UNUSUAL GRAVITY (Free)
 * DW5 outfits for all characters (Free)
 * March 24th - three items
 * DW6 BGM set 1 = DABES, THE MOST DANGEROUS WAY, BEAT IT, CHAOTIC FIELD (Free)
 * DW6 and DW5 BGM set 2 = ROCK AND ROLL OVER, MAGNIFICENT SHOW, DANCE MACABRE, RUN, RUN, RUN (Free)
 * DLC weapon - Dagger-axe (100 yen)
 * March 10th - DW6 outfits for all characters (Free)


 * I personally find DLC irrelevant and horribly optional for the DW series so I have not gotten around to making one. If you want to make a Downloadable content page, knock yourself out and categorize under Gameplay. Be my guest. Do whatever you want. You can even include the same Diao Chan render in here to prove your point. But please don't upload the same image in Diao Chan's gallery again.


 * You can also include other DW games in here too, like Dynasty Warriors 6: Empires with all of its optional costume sets. Dynasty Warriors: Strikeforce, Hokuto Musou, Gundam Musou 3 are other good candidate with their myriad of optional quests and optional characters. Sake neko 22:33, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * When there's a page you think needs making, next time just feel free to make it this time. There's no need to ask permission or to complain about it. It's great you had the initiative to go ahead and do what you thought was right. Keep it up! :) Sake neko 02:03, June 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it would be alright for the past costumes to be up on that page. It's DLC related after all. I'll adjust the gallery sizing for now, because I feel it looks jarring using the default wikia settings. It'd be really great if we could gather other people who are willing to help with the English pricing, but that's their decision. I only really track the Jp ones since sometimes they're exclusive to that country.


 * This can be done at any time really. All I'm doing for now is linking other pages to the general DLC page to show that it exists. If this is too hard for you right now, you can take a break and come back later. Take your time and cheer up. My real life, BTW, is filled with constant sneezing, watery eyes, and !@#$% allergies. Hope you're better off. ^^ Sake neko 02:22, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Guo Jia image
It's still just a concept art at best which are never final anyways and was something created for a poll. The game still has three months and there's nothing wrong with waiting for something more concrete. Kyosei 02:32, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Please don't try to upload magazine scans. It may take a few days (or maybe only one day), but better renders and images of these characters will be available once the "Famitsu exclusive" day limit wears off. What I mean by that is whenever Famitsu reports on something in their magazine productions, all other news outlets usually have to wait for a day or so (sometimes weeks) to report on it. It's done that way to get people to clamor for their copy of that particular Famitsu issue. This is how it has been for years for several franchises. It's how Famitsu continues to stay on top for the Japanese video game news source for home consoles and crushes many Japanese video game news publications, for better or worse.


 * Expect to see better images once Japanese online news sites get the chance to report on it, usually when the Japanese official website updates. Sake neko 17:45, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's fine since you're excited too. I was really excited for Wang Yi... until I read her character description... But I get what you're coming from. :)Sake neko 19:10, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mind you this is going to sound like a rant since this is only a "first impressions" note about her. Please take a moment and travel back with me in time about two years or so ago. I had just finished playing DW6 and I noticed they still chose to depict Shu in a glaringly positive light (same old, same old). However, DW6Special made me a bit hopeful with Ma Chao's new story, which admittedly a lot of fans hated yet I liked because it helped made me understand the appeal of his DW character. Before I thought he was an Internet meme in the making who is too gratingly loud and boastful in either language to actually be taken seriously. His DW6Special story actually strove to give his character depth beyond just spouting "justice" every three sentences.


 * Sooo, I thought the most obvious thing to do to expand the qualities of this more mature Ma Chao was to give him a rival who matched his new found integrity. Blargh to the novel for that one; it mostly wants to make Shu shine like it's a pristine diamond, even if they are just as bloody underhanded as the other factions they're fighting. Ma Dai -was and still is in my book- is an over-hyped yes-man to his cousin in the novel who was actually more fighting beside his cousin than against him. He didn't really seem to spark that much to me as a possible rival character. Pang De was the other obvious choice based on who they brought into the DW series, but I thought there had to be someone else if he shouldn't return. So I took to the books and historical sites and searched. Not too soon afterwards, like within that same hour, I found and read about Wang Yi. Upon learning about her history -not ROTK which is a shade of her real self- I felt like she would be the most obvious addition for Wei and immediately put her in my (now dated) DW7 wish list.


 * Now Wang Yi is historically depicted as a bold and courageous woman who had the brains to match/surpass the generals who surrounded her. She was devoted to her family yet remained focus on the task at hand rather than wail about how much the world around her sucked. Yes, she did try to kill herself twice, but frankly that's what was sometimes expected for wives who wanted to remain "honorable" to their husband/family. What little is said about her focus on the war is easily more closer to a valiant warrior image than a lovers' spat from Sun Shang Xiang or "my-daughter-might-be-ugly" Yue Ying. In fact, so is Bao Sanniang in her original source material, but I'd be straying away from my point if I elaborated further. The point of the matter is that Wang Yi acted with the composure of a strict general and was someone who I thought was sorely overlooked.


 * I'm not going to beat around the bush when I say that DW7 Ma Chao and Ma Dai didn't really warm up to me at all in the slightest. Ma Chao reverted back to his familiar and tired ROTK self, and Ma Dai barely offered beyond what Yue Ying offered during the fights with later Wei. So the idea of adding a rival to Ma Chao now seems a bit dull.


 * Even then, Wang Yi isn't implied to be anything like her original source, what with the whole vengeance deal going for her. As opposed to looking like a competent and dexterous person, Wang Yi is downgraded to be a revenge driven character. Frankly, that spits in the face of her more awesome historical self -who actually prevailed over Ma Chao- and favors her barely mentioned ROTK counterpart -who gets points for me having to go back and read the novel again just to write her ROTK section. And again, the DW description seems to be another set up for Shu to not look as flawed as it really was. It says "riots in Xiliang" not "because of Ma Chao's blind rage" as it was in the novel (read chapter 64).


 * Please bare in mind that it's not my wish to completely deface Shu's "benevolent" or "righteous" image. It's just that Wang Yi's addition using at least some inspiration from her historical counterpart could have helped give Shu some character depth. Shu's portrayal in this series has been an unfortunate fossil that hasn't eroded much over the years, which is rather tragic given that it's one of main factions the games focus on. Both Wei and Wu have changed gradually over the years, but Shu's still trucking along with the same dress in DW3. It's just depressing to me that we pretty much lost on another chance of adding a character who represented some sort of flaw or hypocritical note about their lineup, since it has been done to the other factions repeatedly already. I suppose that's the ROTK appeal or something, but it's sad to see it not change at all.


 * I should be used to disappointment from the DW team's decisions; the whimsical idea to make Zhang He a flamboyant character and Jiang Wei not using Zhong Hui as a tool are just on the tip of the iceberg. But then again, this is just the initial announcement of her character, and she might actually offer more than what I can predict. I vainly hoped the same from Bao Sanniang; that didn't turn out too well. Sake neko 23:42, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Sima Yi
Even so, it's the series page. Not the DW7 or possibly DW8 or DW9 page. You can't deny that before the DW Jin existed, he was in Wei for the DW series. As in DW2~DW6, he was in Wei. That's why that portrait is still DW6, the last game he was counted in Wei. To try to erase the past so casually like that whilst claiming it's the series page is befuddling to me. Sake neko 05:09, August 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * I should probably add that the series page should represent an overall history of the series, hence the reason why Zuo Ci, Pang De and other characters that were cut in DW6 weren't erased from the page at any point. Not because of the fierce fan denial of DW6 existing. Sake neko 05:12, August 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally don't see it as being that confusing at all for reasons I have already mentioned. I don't want or like to repeat myself since it's getting this discussion no where. You should probably talk this over with Kyosei though, because I'm not being very convinced by your rebuttals (which is basically saying to me "live in the now and forget the past" for a very fickle series). Admins can be the deal breakers for discussions like this. Sake neko 14:28, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

It's a series page. This means both the past and current realities of its cast of characters is reflected. This is also the case with the Samurai Warriors series page. I don't see why the Dynasty Warriors one should be any different or special in this case. Kyosei 21:52, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Rumor Stuff
Already updated main page with it and what little else info was stuffed in the two page magazine article. Hearing 120+ characters really made my heart sink though. Guess the only upcoming Musou game I'm looking forward to now is the One Piece one. Your thoughts? Sake neko 05:33, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're happy with it, then that's good I suppose. As a Koei fan -more so than a Warriors fan admittedly- I'm frankly aghast with how many Warriors titles this makes now in this year and already for the impending year alone. It's excited fans like you that remind me that it's not a cash-in, that fans actually want this stuff to happen. It helps to see the other side now and then.


 * Sorry, that's not meant to sound aggressive or mean to you; it's just the simple truth for me. I tend to forget about it when I'm not dreaming for another simulation or original IP title from this company. In other words, ROTK 12's reveal made my day more so than learning about another Warriors title they're working on. I'm trying to burst that dreamy bubble of mine and focus on what the company's actually doing in the now. Thank you for being honest with me. Sake neko 05:50, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Because I'm going to rewrite it with more folklore than what's on Wikipedia. Sake neko 11:34, October 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I should apologize since I didn't say anything and just erased it. Anyways, it's going to take few hours to get a good view of him together, but the results will be worth it. Look forward to it. :) Sake neko 11:56, October 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Most of it was in moonspeak and no one could agree on who he is actually. So I said to hell with it and wrote a majority of it down; believe it or not, there's still ten or so more stories I could have written for him, but I figured that much was enough to get a good grasp on the commonly known image of him.


 * It also helps that I kinda grew up learning mythology. That's why I couldn't help myself in writing it all out. Again, sorry for being so abrupt and headstrong about it. It's just one of my passions in this short life. Hope you (and maybe other KW fans?) enjoy the read. Sake neko 19:54, October 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay then. All is well. Glad you liked the info! :) In my opinion, WO Shuten-douji being Orochi and/or(?) Daji's bastard son would be neat, awkward, and a rewarding experience. But kinda boring too, since Koei already did that type of thing with King Shou in Fengshen Yanyi 2. Just saying is all. Sake neko 20:34, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Nata
He's mythological, not historical. He's ancient though, at least a good five hundred years or so before Sun Wukong even had a name. Sake neko 08:02, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you say so.


 * I personally think he looks like a travesty, given that Taigong Wang and Da Ji were played straight enough from their source material for their Warriors counterparts. The only part that is like the actual Nezha is him being resurrected again through unnatural means, but I somehow feel offended by the robot junk. What, you can allow time travel but it's taboo to always rely on the occult to bring people back to life? Even Kiyomori's resurrection was more respectful I feel, since his default model has subtle hints to the manner of his death in Heike Monogatari. Anyways, just ranting since I know people won't care much for it anyways. Sake neko 08:45, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * They said other Warriors franchises, which in their mind could may as well be an older installment in xx series (like SW2 for Musashi and Kojiro, SW for Goemon, or DWMR2 for those characers). They didn't hint at anything at any other Koei franchises. Crimson Sea is produced by Koinuma, but it is not and never has been officially advertised as a Warriors/Musou title. That's just a comparison players give it since it uses similar a control scheme as Warriors games (same with Kessen III and Mystic Heroes). It doesn't mean they are a part of the same franchise. Sake neko 09:48, October 19, 2011 (UTC)

Collaboration Characters
Mum's the word so far for collaboration characters. I'm just guessing that Tecmo character(s) are the likely scenario due to three big reasons:
 * 1) New DOA and NG games are in the works.
 * 2) MO2's a PS3 and XBOX 360 title matching up with Tecmo's Team Ninja's development methods.
 * 3) It has been done before in the DW series at least.

Whoever the collaboration characters are, they're going to have to get their own article on Koei wiki anyways since they'll play differently in MO2. If it happens to boil down to Tecmo characters, then they'll get a similar treatment as the One Piece, Hokuto or Gundam characters get. Ideally an external link to an appropriately relevant wiki would be preferred, don't you think? This wiki's goal when it comes to another company's IP is to mainly summarize so players have a good grasp of said character. If they want to learn more about the character, they can visit the relevant franchise wiki or play the games/read the comic/watch the anime themselves.

I think I've said this before somewhere else, but changing the entire wiki to try to cover Tecmo things at this point is a premature move. This wiki hasn't scratched too much of Koei's history beyond Warriors games yet. It may be because this used to be called Dynasty Warriors wikia, but it's more because people who are knowledgeable about other Koei products don't really edit here. Also, to change the entire wikia coverage just for one game is silly overkill.

Personally, I'd like an off the wall entry like a mascot character from some Japanese company rather than a Tecmo character though. Sake neko 05:55, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as coming from another IP goes, Takamaru's listed on the SW navibox so the same would apply for collaboration characters in the WO template. Sake neko 06:08, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you have personal problems with that Admin, and he/she isn't going to listen to you, and if it bothers you so much to this day, you should really bring the issue to the Wikia Community or use the Special:Contact feature rather than stifling your complaints about it. The previous admin of that wiki abandoned it last I checked (years ago), so I wouldn't be aware of that particular community's editing standards as of late. The current admin's methods may be harmful and you may not be alone in this concern. I'm not going to take sides in something I'm not familiar with, so please forgive me for not being able to relate too well. I do appreciate your rant though, since it does give your thoughts some context. I'm thankful for that.


 * Alternatively, it probably wouldn't hurt too much to look for another Ninja Gaiden wiki to link to. Or maybe link something else instead. For instance, once the One Piece characters have Kaizoku Musou renders, I fully intend on linking the One Piece Wikii not the one available on Wikia. I respect the users who didn't/don't appreciate the Oasis/Wikia layout. :) Sake neko 06:38, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been told that I'm too old fashioned and weird more than anything else, but thanks anyways. You're an interesting person too. Sake neko 16:45, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Seems very unlikely as Koinuma said himself that those protagonists "are YOU in Sengoku Musou", but if they appear in the game, they'll get their own pages. You could then slap 'em on the SW and WO navi, I suppose. And don't worry. Better to ask than not know. Sake neko 23:53, October 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Erased the Koei Warriors note because there's nothing more frustrating than ignorance of a source material. Here's a Google image search of Kaguyahime. Musou Orochi 2 is NOT the first interpretation in which you see her face, figure, or whatever. Sake neko 00:30, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Just as a head's up. I uploaded the original JPG version of the PNG image you uploaded, because the PNG is something that Koei Warriors converted it to. It lost some quality as a result, because trying to convert a JPG to PNG always loses some visual information when you zoom in. Long story short, in case you didn't know, image conversion doesn't work that way. It's going to get replaced with her different MO2 render soon enough though, so please don't get upset about it. I just wanted you to know. Sake neko 05:38, November 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hang on a sec. Don't upload images if you're not going to add information for them. Work together with someone who has played the game from Koei Warriors so you guys can actually make articles for them. Otherwise they might get deleted since they won't have relevance. Sake neko 05:44, November 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Simply put, don't upload images unless there's an article for it. If that were the case, I would've uploaded the images for the entire Haruka 2 cast ages ago. Like I said, work together with someone from Koei Warriors who has played Bladestorm if you want to include these images. Because I'm personally not interested in ever playing this game.


 * Also, do you know if anyone has the Premium Box artbook scanned somewhere? The artwork in that thing looks DW series like and amazing. That'd be the best thing to include if you can find it. Sake neko 06:04, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Collaboration characters
Mostly predictable choices. Can't really say much more than that. I don't find them particularly interesting. Kyosei 10:14, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll just modify the Troy infobox to include Warriors Orochi stuff. I don't know enough about Bladestorm to make an infobox for it, so a Warriors Orochi infobox would be fine. In the end though I'd rather prefer a knowledgeable Bladestorm fan create her page though as opposed to just making it for the sake of Musou Orochi 2 because it's just sad that her page would have nothing talking about the actual game she comes from otherwise. Kyosei 22:15, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Bladestorm templates
Hmm I don't see the need for the faction icon, first appearance parameter, navi template or separate faction infoboxes. Other than that, I think there might just be enough to make a serviceable infobox. Kyosei 13:46, November 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * The icon looks too big and distracts from the important info but any smaller would lose meaningful details. This is why we only use these sort of icons for game infoboxes only; country flags are simple enough in design to still be recognizable while small.
 * The first appearance section doesn't serve any purpose since the reason why it's there is for characters who make multiple appearances within the same game series. Having it there is making the assumption the game will or has a sequel, which it does not.
 * Generally we only do navi templates for a series of games not for a singular game; it's also particularly redundant as all it does is list the characters which the game page does just fine already.
 * Again with the separate color coded faction infoboxes this is only usually done which a series. I don't really see the need for it for this game.
 * Wow, sure didn't wait for very long. I didn't even get a chance to respond. I guess what I say doesn't matter now. Sake neko 15:55, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Character Similarities
But none of them are supported by conversations found within the games themselves (or in this case with your examples, Musou Orochi 2) yet. That's the difference. Suzuki and crew make up stuff all the time; why not wait to actually see what they come up with? Sake neko 21:51, November 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've already said this before on your talk page, but I think it's worth saying again. "I guess the only Warriors game I'm looking forward to is One Piece Kaizoku Musou". Those words are still ringing true in my mind. Because to me, MO2 isn't really all that new of a game as the "new" features introduced so far is stuff crudely recycled from other Warriors/Suzuki produced games. The idea of Orochi coming back in his true form (ala the game's cover) is already giving off Strikeforce vibes.


 * Combined with the already tedious sounding friendship system, I'm not looking forward to this game at all. You would think that they would at least do a Gundam thing ("if a character is friends with xx in their canon, it's at max at the start"), but there's nothing that I've seen that actually suggests this is in this game. Even if they should choose to have shared friendship ratings with the 120+ characters (in which you only need one character team to increase friendship ratings), that makes it feel pretty pointless to ever play another character. Kinda like playing another character in DW7 really.


 * Gundam 3 had individual stat ratings, overall talented voice acting, and a relatively varied cast of 60+ characters. It's fine for those characters to share movesets since they're piloting robots. This game has twice the characters, recycled movesets from their already fun to play games, maybe one or two additions to actually differentiate between them, and what looks like six costumes/colors per character. It feels like they're nothing more than a moshpit of tangled Barbie doll and GI Joe figurines. What I'm trying to say is if I wanted to play another Gundam game, I would play a Gundam game. Trying to pull the same type of stunt with a different series makes me cringe at its laziness.


 * With One Piece Kaizoku Musou, you at least have the automatic comfort of knowing that every character will feel different when you control them. Because that's what has already been established in the comics itself. Sure, the actions to perform them might be the same, but their attacks will feel dramatically different. That's the type of experience I always look for in Warriors games that I'd want to play. I'm hoping you can actually play all the Straw Hats in that one. Sorry, this probably isn't what you wanted to hear. But this is my opinion based on information that's been released. Sake neko 00:14, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Bladestorm images
That's not their actual artwork though, that's their concept art. Which you already have polished renders for. Artwork should be the artwork in the Premium Box book, the ones that look like the DW ones, which you said you didn't have. These images don't serve a purpose. Sake neko 00:29, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * But it's not their artwork. It's concept art. Back in the day, I was yelled at by the admins (see top of my talk page) for doing the same thing you're doing now. Consistency is nice. Sake neko 00:38, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * For your information, since you didn't even bother to ask, I'm personally not interested in Bladestorm because it looks really boring to play. It looks and plays like a slow Kessen knock off with unneeded DW emphasis. With little to no strategy ever needed for higher levels. At all. It's not because of its subject material. Söldnerschild, a European fantasy game that is fun to play and requires some skill to play, does the same thing Bladestorm strives to do at a quicker pace.


 * You can keep the images on the articles, but don't say it's their artwork. Because it's concept artwork. Sake neko 00:53, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Well, you certainly offended with your tantrum but it doesn't matter. At least one apology is enough for me.

Also if you're going to put up a render and the concept for a single character, then put the render in the infobox (see Paris or Achilles). If the concept is all you have, then put that image in there. Simple as that. If one image type is all you have for a character, don't feel ashamed about it. It's a one shot game anyways. Any visual for a game like this is good enough. If that Vita plan actually kicks in though, that might change for the better? We'll see. Just put in what you have on a case by case basis. Sake neko 04:53, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering that some of the images you previously uploaded had cut off figures for the 3D, I don't think it's that big of an issue to stick with the 3D renders. That's at least finalized. Concepts aren't. Sake neko 05:02, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Take a good look at each concept art. Joan's concept doesn't have the flower in her hair like the final version. Edward's has different a boot design than the final version. Marie's breastplate and eye color are different when it's 3D. More importantly, the concepts all feature different body types than the final renders. Even the DW artwork, as stylized as some of them maybe, at least follow the final 3D designs as seen in a render and not their polished 2D concepts.


 * If the rectangular shape for the renders is throwing you off that badly, why don't I re-upload them with a crop to kill the negative space around each character? It's not that hard.... Sake neko 05:18, November 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Did you see the Kessen II images I uploaded not too long ago? Not all the same are they? Same deal you have with the mercenaries. The book I got them from was all mixed on who was 3D renders and who was still concepts. I'm thinking that a similar occurrence happened for whoever uploaded those images for Bladestorm (from whatever site you're getting these images from). Have you ever thought that maybe the mercenaries stayed concepts, because that was all Koei Omega Force was willing to put? That maybe they weren't on the priority for printing/releasing 3D renders?


 * Why not respect what Omega Force wanted to do? That's the way how I look at it. And I'm no expert on OCD, so I can't really comment on it. Sake neko 05:46, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

No, you can change my mind on things. In fact, that's happened more than once already. That's not the issue here though.

You have to realize that every Koei game, especially one shots, is not going to get the Dynasty Warriors treatment with fans/media/whatever is available on the net. Do you understand what I've been trying to say since this section started? I'm saying that you can't count on a non-Warriors game having all the ideal media that you want. Therefore, the pages on this wiki as a whole are going to look skewed no matter what. No one else is trying to contribute full body artwork for Fengshen Yanyi or Saiyuki characters, for instance. That's because they're found in out of print guidebooks which occasionally appear in Japanese online auctions. If someone owns it and they want to scan it for pics, fine. But that's up for them to decide. Sake neko 07:03, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Think I'll do all of the crops once those pages are done. Since they're pretty short anyways and they're being made at a relatively quick rate. Sake neko 14:12, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

MO2 costumes
Seriously? I thought this is what this post said about that. I could've misread it though, since I saw it in a hurry. Sake neko 15:32, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Like I said, could've misread it because I saw it in a hurry. Frankly speaking, I don't really care about secondary costumes. They all look like anime stereotypes and most of them are looking kinda garish lately anyways. But better to be accurate in the end. Sake neko 05:16, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * My opinion is that if the default costume for a character doesn't look good or appealing, then that's a big time failure for the character designer. Trying to compensate with secondary colors for the same outfit seems like a designer who can't/didn't have enough time to make up their mind about it. Mind you, fighting games, sports games, and RTSs need it to establish who is playing who, but I can't see a point for it in any other case. I tend to think the same with alternate outfits.


 * Further enforcing the reason why I tend to not really dwell too much on Warriors games in the end. If more costumes and not ingenuity is what actually adds replay value, there must be something wrong with it. That's why I respected the costume color edit that was featured in SW3. That way fans can edit a character to have whatever colors scheme they want without subjecting them to level grind or what have you.


 * Including a costume from a different franchise (such as the Batman Beyond outfit in Batman Arkham City) is nice, but it really shouldn't matter much in the end. More of a neat easter egg. Yeah, I've never been a fan of alternate colors. Sake neko 05:40, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Fu Xi or Nu Wa needed a picture upload for their Warriors Orochi counterparts because they were different. Kojiro hasn't been changed like they have though. Joan and company can have the MO2 renders to show that they're guest characters in that particular game -regardless of their costume/weapon not changing- but that's about it. Sake neko 20:54, November 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, I don't see why not. You'd have to be specific to what game it is and link the game name to an external link if you add it though. Since amazingly not everyone knows about those and Koei wiki won't talk about it. Sake neko 13:15, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's for the second game not the one that's coming out. This book mainly has concepts like this and character heights listed but no Treasure box illustrations for the entire cast are in it. There aren't any mentions of books for MO2 being out yet, but I wouldn't doubt it if Koei released one soon-ish. Sake neko 23:06, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

It's pretty much what I suspected, no big surprise knowing Koei. It's short so here's a direct translation:

"The following information was announced in this week's Famitsu report. Four books will be released for Musou Orochi 2:
 * Musou Orochi 2 Complete Guide - Part 1; Sometime in December 1890 yen
 * Musou Orochi 2 Complete Guide - Part 2; 2012 January 1890 yen
 * Musou Orochi 2 Official Data Collection (the same type as the one that's linked in my response above); 2012 January 2200 yen
 * Comic Musou Orochi 2 Vol. 1 (tentative title; these are fan comics that Koei officially sponsors); 2012 February 1000 yen

There's still no information of the books' contents. I'll let you guys know when this has further clarification. It doesn't seem like you can reserve these books though."

In other words, you're going to have to wait at least next year in order to see any concepts or artworks since this game won't have a visual book for its Premium Box set. Sake neko 00:01, November 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm going to say this in the most direct way that I know: I don't care to be bombarded for a game I'm not looking forward to whatsoever. I'm only interested in pounding information onto Musou Orochi 2 related pages so that the game/characters don't look so empty on the wiki. Please respect my opinion and keep the Musou Orochi 2 speculation/hype/excitement at Koei Warriors, where you guys have a massive forum for that type of stuff. I'm not going to answer you anymore on anything Musou Orochi 2 related until the game is actually out. Sake neko 00:19, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're not a bother, I just don't like hype or spreading it. I really think that most of our questions about this game will be for real answered if everyone just waited for the game or a detailed trailer to come out, but I guess people abhor patience or something. Thanks and sorry in advance if I sounded crude. Sake neko 00:31, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Orochi
This isn't the same situation as it was with Xi Wang Mu. The game considers them separate playable characters and what he does when he's resurrected is different from when he was still alive. Not to mention they also have separate movesets even if they may happen to share the same weapons. I don't see any reason to merge them together. Kyosei 03:59, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see the point of making any sort of speculation until the game is out. In any case, the game is going to be out in Japan in a month. If it happens to be that way we'll just do the same thing we did with the DW7 characters: link Orochi X's moveset on Orochi's page. Kyosei 04:10, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

DLC
MO2 is still one game though and it's the only game of its series to even include DLC. Compare that to the SW or DW series and that doesn't seem like a worthwhile endeavor to make a separate page. It can be placed at the very top of the normal DLC page, over Hokuto, but that's about it. Sake neko 16:16, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * My connection's crap and I can still see the DLC page fine. I think you're just being biased for MO2, which again is only one game, and you're just trying to justify giving it its own page. If that's the case, then fine whatever. Your opinion's not going to change anyways, you're being an obsessed fan about it, and I don't really care to deal with that right now. Sake neko 19:30, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're going to dissect the DLC page, then you'd best do it for every game then. That includes separating the DW series DLC page to be per page as well. "Dynasty Warriors 7: Xtreme Legends/DLC" in other words is going to have to made. Basically, what I'm saying is that your proposal will lead to erasing pages. If you're willing to do that, then fine.


 * I'm being snippy because you're still assuming MO2 and One Piece Kaizoku Musou will have massive DLC, when in reality nothing has actually been verified in detail yet because it's still being made. Assuming is something I've never really agreed with on putting on wikis because then it means going back and having to rewrite sections again. That's what gives wikis the questionable rep of authenticity which has always irked me over the years from outside criticism, that "oh it's just something fans write so it's not really accurate" type of criticism. I've never really agreed to that, ever, but assuming stuff doesn't really help argue against it.


 * I've told you that I'm old fashioned. I like to get verification and news reports to back up changes or information that I try to share. I believe in being patient. If there's nothing actually concrete to back up claims of what will to come, then it's just something that needs more time to verify. So in other words, you only really brought this topic up again because you're assuming MO2 will have that flood of DLC, and that's exactly what all of your replies about DLC have said to me. Why not wait to see if it actually does? Sake neko 20:21, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * But if I did offend you in some way, then I do apologize for that part. I probably sounded too rash and childish and I am sorry for that. Sake neko

Wow, thanks for waiting for a proper consensus. First off, it seems a bit wasteful and presumptuous to make "series" DLC subpages for series which obviously only have one game featuring DLC. In the cases of Winning Post, Kiniro no Corda, Haruka and so on it also feels like we're making readers unnecessarily click an extra link to see one or two new things. I also don't like what you've done to the DLC page itself. It might as well just be a standard disambiguation page as opposed to this long laundry list of pointless galleries. Kyosei 21:11, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

I don't expect you to get everything correct, but could you at least read the actual data you're putting for pre-order and Treasure Box DLC? That's actually at the very top of the Musou Orochi 2 page, you know. Sake neko 00:43, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

MO2 info
This is not really anything new for the series. In essence this information is a slightly revamped version of the second game's system really... Aside from the remark about the commander skill, most of this information mostly belongs on the red links Abilities and Weapon Fusion pages. The MO2 page itself is trying to emphasize whatever new stuff they're to do for the game that's different from previous titles.

Also, whatever happened to that request I have asked earlier on your talk page? Why are you still badgering me about this game when I have told you that I'm not terribly interested in this game? This game will be out in two more weeks time in Japan and that's not very long from now. I think this is my third or so time that I have said it to you, and you keep ignoring whatever I say besides whatever pertains to your immediate interest. I know you are awfully excited about this title, but you haven't really respected my privacy at all and that's pretty rude. Whatever happened to honoring your word? Sake neko 06:34, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * All I'm asking of you is to at least wait until the game is out in Japan (at least December 23rd or so), because then everything can actually be organized better with an actual sit-down with the game and not so blurry with player reports and so on. Again, keep the excitement at Koei Warriors. I'm not interested in changing information repeatedly unless something pops up on the official Twitter. Please, that's all I ask. Sake neko 06:48, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't blame yourself or ever apologize for being honest with your feelings to me. Keep watching and gathering information at Koei Warriors if you want, but also keep in mind that I won't respond to it with the same enthusiasm as you. I'm just trying to emphasize that with all of these responses. Besides, it's often better to wait, especially when it's so close to the release date, since impressions from play tests differ for everyone who attends them. Rather than having to deal with what was true and what not, it's better to just wait for the game or some concrete videos of some sort. Sake neko

Re:Zuo Ci
Eh? We've always done the series templates based on first series appearance. In fact I don't really like the fact we have Fu Xi and Nu Wa in the Warriors Orochi series template. I don't find the reasons you give for adding him to the Warriors Orochi template very compelling. Kyosei 08:04, December 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Suzuki has already stated he won't be in another Dynasty Warriors game but that doesn't change the fact he first appeared in the Dynasty Warriors series and is present at least three Dynasty Warriors games as is. You're also making the assumption there will be another Warriors Orochi game with this statement. I don't necessarily think that's the case. Your argument is also flawed because you could say the same thing for Goemon, Musashi and Kojiro but only make special pleading for Zuo Ci because one game considers him to be a Warriors Orochi character. Putting him in two series templates is not necessary. Kyosei 14:15, December 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Given the fact that you think my qualms were based on lack of visual proof means you obviously missed the point of the statement I was trying to make. The Warriors Orochi template has generally only been about including characters who first became playable "Warriors" characters. This is why the collaboration characters are added to the template even if they aren't series original characters. This is not the case for Zuo Ci (or Fu Xi or Nu Wa for that matter). This happened in the Dynasty Warriors series first. Kyosei 00:23, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * The series templates has never been about series exclusivity, it's always been about first appearances or in the case of the Warriors Orochi template as I stated before first playable "Warriors" appearance. Kyosei 00:49, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I can't believe you're using a Musou sequence of all things to justify Zuo Ci as an original WO character when he's clearly been in more games in the DW series. Just because Suzuki and company want you to believe that he's a WO original character doesn't mean he actually is one. If anything, you can look at Zuo Ci's appearance in the newest WO game as an abstract continuation of his DW story. In DW, he was an adept taoist who mysteriously disappeared in his ending. In MO2, he's now considered an immortal being, meaning that he has "passed on" so to speak.

It's a reflection of Suzuki's thoughts regarding Zuo Ci's removal from DW, which is already stated on his page, but that's it. Frankly, I think fans of the DW series would be offended if we follow what Suzuki wants us to believe by spontaneously plopping him in the WO template, like he has always been a WO exclusive character. That's like a slap to the face almost. Sake neko 15:53, December 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was never a question about visual proof or evidence of the claim. It was more a "which series does he appear in first" claim that was questioned. You somehow fail to grasp that: "Just because Suzuki and company want you to believe that he's a WO original character doesn't mean he actually is one." It doesn't change the fact that he premiered in the DW series first. Sake neko 00:14, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Simply put, it feels redundant to rub it into viewer's faces that he's a WO character only now. It already says on his page why he is thought to be that way. Plus, you're ignoring the past in favor of the new. Why are you being so blindingly obedient to whatever Suzuki and company want you to believe with this new title, when it's obvious that he was still in the games as he was in DW? That's what I'm trying to say to you. Sake neko 00:24, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * It still doesn't validate the fact that he hasn't actually changed in any major way from his DW counterpart through. His voice actor, attire, moveset and personality are exactly the same as they were in DW5. And you're ignoring the fact that before then he was still considered a DW character. At best, this point you're trying to make can be noted within his actual character page. But it's faulty to try to pass him off as a "brand new" WO character on the template and series themselves, when he's not new or revised by any means. Sake neko 00:33, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Those are different cases though. They have at least have something new that was created for them in WO. I'm trying to stress that even if he is WO only character now, nothing has changed about him. Him being a WO only character can be put on his page, but not on the template. Because there hasn't been anything really new (what aside from two attacks) that has actually been done for his character. Please read carefully as to what I am saying here. It's not a question of whether the developers want this or not. It's a matter of what has actually been new that affects the template and series page. Sake neko 00:43, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Fu Xi and Nu Wa
They have not been in the WO template since the first game. The same "issue" regarding Zuo Ci applies to these two as well. First playable "Warriors" series appearance. It doesn't happen in Warriors Orochi it happens in Dynasty Warriors. Kyosei 01:07, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * It just means your cache hasn't updated. Kyosei 01:13, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I was merely waiting for an actual consensus to be made as opposed to having a constant edit war on the affected pages. Single-handedly charging ahead with your purposed changes without waiting for any consensus or permission was not exactly the most open minded action either. The fact you admit you don't even want to bother understanding the other side of the argument brings to question whether you wanted any consensus at all. Kyosei 01:32, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * You were the one to ask for permission first. I am confused as to why you would suddenly object to needing something you personally asked for to begin with. Also, did you not read what I stated earlier for the collaboration characters? I allow them on the Warriors Orochi template because the Warriors Orochi template lists characters who make their first playable "Warriors" appearance. Nemea, Achilles, Joan, etc. did not become traditional "Warriors" characters until just now. Technically this is also the case for other characters who appeared in other franchises first such as Da Ji, Taigong Wang, and others. They did not become playable "Warriors" characters until Warriors Orochi hence why they are included in the template. Kyosei 01:54, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I personally don't think the templates are necessary for easier navigation as they are already linked multiple times as is and even given an easy category. But I would personally not object to them being on their pages. Kyosei 02:22, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * The infobox templates are a bit more tricky as their original game infobox templates provide info not included in the Warriors Orochi infobox. Most of the Warriors Orochi additions for these particular characters are also minor at best and any relevant Orochi info is already appended to those infoboxes. Think of it how we treat the Samurai Warriors and Dynasty Warriors infoboxes. This isn't really the case for Fenshen Yanyi or Saiyuki characters as not as there's not much info lost from their original franchises when converting them to the Warriors Orochi infoboxes. Kyosei 02:48, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

It's ok. I know you're only trying to be helpful. It's why I bother trying to explain the logic and reasons behind my own actions. In no way do I think anything you do is intentionally malicious or spiteful. Kyosei 02:50, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Warriors Orochi portraits
Fenshen Yanyi and Saiyuki character pages have portrait images because the games themselves are so old finding images of the artwork or the original artbooks for these games are nearly impossible and thus are the only images these characters have. This is not the same problem that Warriors Orochi characters have and don't really see any reason to have their portraits. Kyosei 03:55, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * No. Again, I don't see the reason we should do this for Warriors Orochi characters. We already have a full body render, there's no reason to upload portraits. Kyosei 21:41, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Don't steal from Musou Blog. You don't have permission to use it. Sake neko 21:47, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's stealing when Musou Blog specifically asks on their site that you don't take their images without their permission. You obviously haven't even tried asking them for it as you still keep their "logo" Musou Blog in their screenshot. They actually had to pay money to even get those images; the only money you paid is for the Internet service to take those images. Stealing is not helping the wiki as you claim. Sake neko 22:29, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * And for your information, we take images from Japanese news sites because that's an open source of information that's being used under the Fair Use-like licensing. These are also images the company actually wants you and other viewers to have/be exposed to. Taking from Musou Blog would be a Creative-Commons license, which requires you to at least get permission first. Sake neko 22:33, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * No offense, but I would still chew you out even if you could read Japanese for the same reasons. Sake neko 22:37, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

The above statement still stands regardless of whether they have the logo on them or not. Don't steal from Musou Blog. Sake neko 00:06, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) These images are taken from a series of Niconico Videos dedicated to 100monnin no Sengoku Musou. The better quality images with the G logo at the bottom are taken from Gamer articles.
 * 2) If you want to actually put these on the wiki, make article pages for the characters who have images.
 * 3) If you want to make their articles, you better make them pages that actually have information on them for other games and not just for the sake of saying that they're unique characters in this one single mobile game.

That's basically it. I don't know why you're showing me these, because the rest of these characters don't have articles on the wiki. I've only put up a handful of images because they already had pages on the wiki, and I'm not particularly interested in making more character stub pages right now. Sake neko 19:18, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

He also says this. So why not just WAIT for that press release with an official name for the game and an overseas release date? That way, it'll kill two birds with one stone and it can be just one edit as opposed to a flustered series of edits. Sake neko 00:33, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't go about copy and pasting the official English website verbatim. That is technically a copyright violation and not bloody worth trying to argue that as Fair-Use. Besides, their actual summaries for the handful characters you did -aside from a few characters I think- already mention all the stuff the characters actually do as far as their activities in the main story concern. Some people -or should I honestly say about 70% of the cast- barely appear to do anything at all. That's apparently what the DLC scenarios are trying to compensate for. Sake neko 17:52, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Names
I've already said my piece on this talk page. Kyosei seems content to just wait; that's pretty much echoes my thoughts at that moment. I'm a little upset they aren't going to change Da Ji to Daji though, since it's a style name and that's not how style names work, yadda yadda yadda. Sake neko 04:31, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Photoshop
But you didn't fix it. The rims are still being cut and the blade itself is being cut. It's supposed to be a smooth circular edge. The perspective on the right hook of the blade is still off, the darker shading for the weapon's decoration is gone, and the inner and outer rims are being sliced.

Stop relying solely on the magic wand for masking the black because it shows. Badly. It doesn't create a clean cut by itself. If you're really want to mask the black that badly, use a layer mask, the marque tool, and the brush tool. Zoom in so close the pixels can cut you and do the meticulous work to make it a clear cut. Either that, or master the pen tool. If you don't want to do that, then please, please leave it be. Sake neko 04:11, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * You could also try lowering the tolerance on your magic wand, but you're still going to have to clean up after it. Sake neko 04:14, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I said magic wand because usually the polygonal lasso doesn't go inside objects that's been selected like the ones you're putting up (the inside shading is the key tipper for that). Unless your lasso goes all over the place, which is hard to believe with a polygonal lasso and the jaggedness of the cut. Usually that's a magic wand with too high a tolerance mistake that's pretty common to see with photoshop edits. I'm being on your case about this because it really bothers me. I don't see a reason whatsoever to edit the original if you're going to put up a version that's incomplete.


 * If you see it like I'm picking on you, you can blow at me and get angry at me all you want. But I am just stating what's on my mind with you because I don't like to lie about what bothers me with people I talk to. And you said that you don't see anything wrong with the edits you put in the image history. This is why I responded back on your talk page. To tell you what I think is wrong with it. I'm not badgering you for "no go reason", I'm telling you what I see that you don't see. Or refuse to see? Anyways, it doesn't look like you're going to back down on it so I apologize if you took it like I was "picking on you". I'll keep my mouth shut for now on if that's what you want. Sake neko 04:35, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

DLC costumes
So it's a rant you want, eh?

As with all DLC costumes for DW7, I think it's a travesty they're making interested fans pay that much for each pack before releasing the final compiled set. It's not worth it really.

From a creative perspective, I don't really like a lot of them. The Western inspired designs are often awkward mismatches for the characters who have them. Off the top of my head, Snow White and Xing Cai, Lancelot for Xiahou Dun, or the Cheshire Cat for Gan Ning. It's like the developers kinda chose one trait per character and hoped to emphasize that as a theme with another character, but it kinda falls apart due to their jumbled knowledge of the source material. I mostly say this because the Japanese themed ones are actually pretty fitting for the characters who have them. Jiang Wei, for instance, is a good parallel with Ushiwaka since they are both famously known to have died young with their ambitions left unfulfilled. It's just the utter mismatch of theme and tone that irks me. Like a majority of these designs were given for fetish fuel/just for the hell of it, which is a creative decision which I'm not digging in this particular case.

The few costumes I do like visually and creatively are too far in between. Dian Wei + Xu Zhu, Lu Meng, Ding Feng, Huang Zhong, and Xiahou Ba are the ones I liked when I first saw them. Taishi Ci, Liu Shan, Diao Chan + Lu Bu, and Yuan Shao (Emperor's New Clothes) are fitting for their characters, but I don't like their designs too much. They look pretty garish to me. Sake neko 06:32, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Temporary or not, all you have to do is wait for the actual renders. In this case, it would Wednesday (PST) or Thursday (everywhere else) next week and boom they'll be there on the web ready for to be uploaded in its entirety (or not) onto the wiki. The news report said these costumes will be available on April 26th, so it's more than likely those costumes are going to be included. I just find it really pointless to upload a magazine scan if they're going to be available that soon.


 * Plus this is something ask to please refrain from doing earlier on your talk page already. For the same reasons. It's like you hardly read what I type to you sometimes and it's getting irritating now and then. Thus the reason I'm not sounding very civil about it. Sake neko 07:54, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Image
If a new render is different than a previous render, keep the two. Light-Revan 22:19, April 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * You don't understand what I said above? Light-Revan 22:24, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Ixbran 22:27, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you had read the message i sent you on your talk page, you would understand why i did what i did.

It is not the same render. It is rather stupid to remove an image that doesn't exist anymore in the wiki after depiste it is of good quality and useful. It's the first time I see that on a gaming wiki, I don't see the logic about it. Light-Revan 22:30, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I read the policy, such rules don't exist, therefore keep the two or lead me to the policy you saw about that. Light-Revan 22:34, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but on an external note, I think you don't know anything about wiki. Admins or Bureaucrats can't block you for such things. It's not a dictature, you and everyone else can talk with them about everything concerning the wiki, for improving it etc. This wiki is a wiki under Wikia Gaming, they have rules to respect. If they do something like that and ban me for anything, they can be banned too, temporary or forever. Light-Revan 22:46, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, but it's not for me, it's for everyone wanting to see all the images available for the characters, and for the principle. A wiki about something should have at least all the good and interesting images in one of its objectives. People come here for many reasons, and some for see character images. If I was not here at the moment, this image would disappeared forever. Light-Revan 22:56, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Recent Activity
Nope, don't think that at all. In fact, you're doing good edits because it's informing visitors of the actual localized names and such. You shouldn't need to ask to replace my on-the-fly translations with what actually appears in the English ports of the game. I'm pretty lazy with replacing that information so I think you're doing a great job. The only exceptions to that would be the weapon types in the infoboxes because those actually have very specific names. And the moveset additions are always appreciated. I don't really have too much fun playing Warriors games anymore, so it's great that someone else who does like them willingly fills those in.

Bothersome to me would be more like how Light-Revan was before he/she had a hissy fit and left. That person mostly complained/whined/outright insulted anything that went against them and didn't actually contribute much in the end. You are –and always have been– eons more helpful and respectful than them. Sake neko 21:05, May 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hoo, good save. I thought something was wrong with the image but I couldn't put my finger on it. Re-uploading the actual costume then. Sake neko 20:16, May 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just so you know, the correct image has been uploaded. Wikia's cache needs to update for it to show properly, however, so please do not try re-uploading it again and again like you usually do when the cache is behind. Let it update naturally please, because Wikia's having a bit a seizure lately and needs its training wheels to catch up to image changes as of late. Sake neko 20:21, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

You're forgetting that those concepts were originally made the Team Ninja staff, some members who may or may not be still working with Koei-Tecmo. So no, they don't actually count for WO3. They're just reprinting the same concept art from the actual games those were created for. This is a redundant image that's poorly stretching it. Sake neko 10:49, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * First off, I'm not a mod of this wiki. I just have a stronger opinion against image spam than you do apparently. I just see no point in giving falsified credit to the Koei-Tecmo staff/Omega Force staff for something Team Ninja obviously did years before this game was made. You can tell it's the Team Ninja staff because of the completely different art style between the other concepts. Regardless of what book it's in when you saw it, that point still stands.


 * The other concepts I'm okay with because Omega Force designers actually made those. Sake neko 11:00, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

SWC protagonists
ARE YOU IN THE GAME. YOU ARE EXPERIENCING HISTORY.

I don't know how many more times I have to say that, but I will until that comes across to you. You can write about them with a sub-page on the edit character pages because that is what they are, but they are not actual series characters. Heck, they're not even based on any actual historical figures or stories like Kunoichi to even warrant calling them "original characters". Sake neko 05:28, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Koinuma has already said that anything that happens in the social game, stays in the social game because Omega Force has no creative input for its creation. That's all done by GREE and whoever/whatever team develops that particular game. I'm more surprised people aren't thinking Chacha, since she has been a strong if boringly predictable candidate for this series. Personally, I would want her to be Jokei-in, Otsuya-no-Kata, or Kyogoku Maria; but that's probably never going to happen knowing how that goes with my wishes in the past.


 * Anyways, wait and see. Because speculah doesn't matter much once the reveal actually happens. Sake neko 06:18, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * You may think it's fun, but I'm tired of publicity stunts like this from the Warriors franchises. Perhaps I'm just jaded by the fictional gay marriage hype that is rolling in. I'm tired of homosexuals being flaunted around for exploitation like that, because I think homosexuals in fiction are pretty offensive to the real-life gay people. A faulty and overtly idealized acceptance that is rarely done very tactfully or respectfully. There are exceptions to how I feel about it, but that comic series is certainly not one of them to me. Then again, I'm perhaps reading too much into it. Anyways, it may seem like a tangent to you, but it's on the same trend of thought I have with these "reveals" in general. Sake neko 06:34, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to level with you here: I don't care. I don't care about new Warriors characters period until I actually get to play the game they're appearing in. If you want to know who I would want him to be, then I would want him to be Koubou Daishi. Because then he can spit stars from his mouth that kill dragons. But in all reality, I don't care to partake in these type of discussions. Sake neko 16:16, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

The Concept Artworks You Posted...
Sorry to rain on your parade, but I thought we were only allowed to post concept artworks (completed ones at that) for each character per game if they lacked either a render or an official illustration. I'll quote on what Sake Neko once told me regarding this topic when I brought it up with him.

''Two images for the default appearance is the norm. It's a fight to the finish for that second image most of the time. An easy way of looking at it is this:''
 * Treasure Box artwork + 3D render = complete; no more is needed
 * Treasure Box artwork but no 3D render = concept artwork okay
 * No Treasure Box artwork; two images of same character attire/weapon acceptable
 * Main visual or any available image given for said character in other Koei franchises (but you primarily upload Warriors related things, so this might not apply to your question directly)

Any more than two –especially for the always-changing-their-looks-anyways-in-their-series-Warriors''-characters– is prone to deletion. That's to prevent over flooding the character galleries for one game, since image spam isn't really the point of this wiki. Usually one image per alternate outfit or non-Warriors game appearance is acceptable.''

So, say if you were to upload any Warriors'' concept artwork for Zhou Tai, Xiahou Dun, Goemon, Yukimura, and so on right now, they would likely get deleted. These characters already have more than enough images to display their default and differing appearances throughout the Warriors franchises, and they doesn't need any more to establish that fact. Concept art for any alternate outfits/downloadable outfits they have as well would likely be deleted at this point, as they would be considered too excessive.''

''The only exceptions to this so far would be the collaboration characters, ala Ryu Hayabusa and company. Multiple images for them are allowed to reflect that they have been a guest in "so-and-so" many games. Sake neko 04:36, May 21, 2012 (UTC)''

If that's not enough, you may want to inquire him about it to see if he'll either keep the concept artworks you uploaded or have them removed from the gallery. Humble Novice 17:01, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2 per default character appearance. Anymore is unnecessarily excessive and not the point of this wiki. Sake neko 04:05, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude, why aren't you reading what Humble Novice had the decency to copy for you? I feel like I'm talking circles around you because this is like the Bladestorm conversation all over again. Just read the top of this section really carefully, okay? Look at Fu Xi and Nuwa's pages and compare them to the other WO characters. Then read that copy-pasta again. If I have to repeat myself one more time to you, I'm going to blow my top over silly image spam when I don't really need to. Sake neko 04:11, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Xu Shu's Weapon
I'm telling you that that' s not the actual translation though. I know you don't know Japanese, but I'm telling you that it's not "Fist sword".

"Fist" is not "fist" (拳); it's "attack" (撃). They look similar, but those characters I put down are different. It's also a real thing and not a completely made up word. Tell the people at Koei Warriors to look up Jijian (撃剣), because I'm not going to change something to a made up and typo'd "Fist Sword". It's just not that at all. Jijian is technically a sword technique though and not necessarily a weapon though, but it's an actual real world concept. Sake neko 08:19, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Uses a different Chinese character for "sword" but it's still translates as a bladed weapon/sword. It also uses "撃" and not "拳". Sake neko 08:21, May 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * He uses two Chinese weapons simultaneously based on the distorted, blurry description left of the first weapon image. One appears to be a normal sword-ish thing in one hand, and he smashes with a mini-gauntlet in the other. Just waiting for better screens to confirm that though. Also, call it Jijian or "Attack Sword" at least. Because, while it is painfully literal, it's closer to the actual weapon's name. Sake neko 08:36, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I know that feeling. I've done that more than once before. I still remember when I typed Ghengis Khan for the longest time because I thought I was spelling Genghis Khan. Then, when I actually read what I typed, I did a forehead slap. Ugh. Sake neko 18:09, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're putting is what it actually is. You can look at the screenshots for yourself if you want. But then again, I don't really pay that much attention to weapon details. Sake neko 22:11, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Xingcai/Zhangshi
But they aren't the same person. That's the point I'm trying to drive by separating them. Xingcai is a creation for the DW series/Warriors franchise. Mei Mei and her sisters are creations for Kessen. Zhangshi is the one actually based on ROTK to a tee.

In this case, while they are all based on the same two people, they are all different from one another in each of the listed franchises. They should be treated as separate entities to support that fact. Sake neko 05:13, May 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ordinarily I wouldn't think this to be necessary, but it is. Xingcai for one thing is not even a historical name; it's made up completely for DW/WO whatever. And as someone as pointed out already, she is the younger sister, the other Empress Zhang. Zhangshi is specified to be the elder sister in the ROTK series. See? You already have two different characters.


 * I don't know why you're having such a hissy fit about this when the games themselves specify to be completely different entities to begin with. Sake neko 05:33, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

It's fine, I'm used to you having overreactions and ranting; it got old pretty quick. I know you never really mean too badly with what you say to me, and I really do appreciate the honesty. I don't know what day you've had, but I hope it gets better with you. As long as you aren't slitting your wrists, dying from cancer, or something that teeters on taking your own life in someway, you'll survive. Everyone is more hardy than they are on bad days; it's just a matter of living past it.

But yeah, back on topic. I'm treating Xingcai in the same way I'm treating Kunoichi. That's all I'm doing really with that. Sake neko 05:51, May 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Always wait. June 6 for America/June 7 for Europe/Japan is when his name will be announced. That's the date of the reveal. I could be wrong, y'know. Sake neko 06:04, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Seimei
Unlike those characters, he actually has original information for that series that is worth keeping its original template for. I see him as a Nemea and not a WO character. Sake neko 04:06, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * This can go on endlessly; the information's there so that's enough right? I don't want to bother explaining to you why Seimei should keep his Haruka template because you're obviously just not going to care. Sake neko 04:10, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

Also Daji wasn't a playable character; she was a villain. You could fight her in three games, but never recruit her. All you could put was her elemental trait in the first game, which is moot by the second and Mystic Heroes.

Taigong Wang and company, like I said, can change their elements and weapons throughout the franchise pretty easily. The FY template I made was mostly to accommodate the first game. Then I learned that the games played dramatically different from one another. Like the first game, characters can change their weapons to whatever the player wanted. They could use whatever spells they wanted, and had an innate elemental trait.

The second game removes all of the flexibility in favor of "Hey, look original character: Ziya!". They tried to bring it back again in Mystic Heroes, but not really at the same time. Sake neko 04:33, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

He's also a prominent Haruka character who has more original information for him than you are willing to accept. Like I said, he's a Nemea. But it's so frustrating to try to explain that to someone who doesn't care about anything else but Warriors things as far as Koei is concerned. It's like talking to a brick wall. Sake neko 04:39, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's probably one of the most asinine things you've ever said to me. But whatever. As long as you admit that you only care about Warriors things, then it's pretty much set in stone my opinion of your acceptance of anything else Koei has done. It's people like you that makes me wonder why I even bother trying to write anything else Koei related. Sake neko 04:48, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

Look, don't get sarcastic with me or try to pretend like you're sorry. I'm just accepting something I was too stupid and too blind to realize until just now. If you see it as me calling you names or whatever, then fine. I'm done trying to express my thoughts to you. Your stubbornness and your loyalty for just Warriors things is really something I'm just now accepting. You really aren't going to care about anything else. I'm accepting it right now, whether I like it or not. Sake neko 04:59, June 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * All you're doing is twisting that knife by trying to talk to me. I'm done trying to express my thoughts to you right now. I need to mull on what I've accepted. Sake neko 05:15, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

April Fools 2010 joke
The characters those kitties are supposed to represent: Ryu, Ayane, Murasame, and Genshin. That's why that's only on Ryu and Ayane's pages. Kasumi was also mentioned, if not pictured. Sake neko 15:35, June 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Also I would appreciate it if you just stick to what you know and not try to write for anything you don't know or care about. It just shows how much you really don't care when you do. Please remember that for now on. Sake neko 17:42, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Bromance thing
1. Sorry, didn't notice that I'm not logged in. 2. Chin did't said: "This game (he also hasn't said that it's a DW7: Empires, BTW) gonna have same-gender marriages". All he said that two guys were holding hands. I agree that in the end we can receive this, but we need to wait for confirmation.

Seimei
Suzuki said in this week's Koei Tecmo Live:
 * Fox can attack
 * His main weapon is shikigami
 * He is a typical onmyouji

I'm saying this to you because I don't want a silly edit war with you about you saying that that fan in his render is his weapon. If you don't believe me, watch the video yourself. Sake neko 21:10, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not me "feeling superior" about being right. I don't even care about this game. It's just me saying that we should put what the actual developer said himself. Stop ignoring him. Sake neko 21:32, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Re:Special costumes
Yes I realize that but again if you read my amended edit note, I say that this game is based off of Xtreme Legends. Anything that this expansion added, be it the costume or new characters, are included. Period. Therefore it is redundant to even bother mentioning the costumes are available because this isn't even something new for an Empires game. Pervious Empires games have done the same thing for whatever Xtreme Legends expansion they're based off of such as 5 Empires. This is nothing special or even remotely notable. Kyosei 04:46, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * We didn't even bother doing this for older games and no one was confused or complained. I don't see why we would bother to have to include it for 7 just because it's 7 as in reality no important or valuable information is actually being added. Kyosei 05:04, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Zhang Chunhua
There's no reason to make a page for essentially an edit character. Besides her name, there is nothing to distinguish herself from a player edit character. Koei has done nothing beyond ask for a name for a small contest. Less has been done for her than even the Chronicles protagonists. Kyosei (talk) 02:37, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Generics have been playable since the very first Empires game. This nothing new. Kyosei (talk) 02:38, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The difference between Jia Chong and Zhang Chunhua is that he has at least been introduced as an npc who actually does something unique to himself that Koei has done for him. She hasn't had any of that yet. You're making huge assumptions that something is going to happen with her and the game isn't even out yet. Her name's won a contest. Big whoop. People can read that on the Empires page. It doesn't need a page to say she'll be no better than a generic with nothing to distinguish herself. Kyosei (talk) 02:46, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

You make this assumption I make these male npc pages, which I don't, and leave them there because they're more important than the female ones. Sad truth is that tends to be the case historically as well. However, because I seem to be picking on you personally, you seem to think I don't do these to male npcs as well. There are numerous times I've deleted a male npc page and no one blinks. But because this is your pet project you all of a sudden think I'm being sexist. Look at least wait for the game to come out first. At best you have a generic design who'll replace another generic design. You don't know what she'll do in the game. Can you see the future? Are you a developer working on the game and writing the script? Do you know if it's even more significant that what you think it'll be? Just wait for the game. This is the same jumping the gun and snipe attack you were doing for your bromance defense. Kyosei (talk) 02:59, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's left on Ma Teng's page because it goes back to my earlier point that I mentioned before. Ma Teng does unique story related events which were made just for him before 7 Empires. We have never made new pages based on a generic of a generic doing something possibly generic. Having her page up there is not only misleading, it's giving our readers a false sense of importance when we really don't know jack. When we know for sure has always been our policy. You're basing your assumptions on a rumor? How flimsy is that? It's things like that which have readers doubt the credibility and accuracy of a wiki.


 * This is also not the first time I've deleted a page based on there not being enough information to legitimately justify it. Here a deletion log from last year and earlier since I didn't realize you could not see deleted contributions. Game pages that now have full blown articles I've deleted on more than one occasion due to lack of info such as Dynasty Warrior 7 and Pokemon Conquest. Numerous npc and battle pages due to lack of effort and importance. Like I said before wait. When we know for sure then we can make a big deal about it. This is not like a newly announced playable character like Wang Yi where we don't have to make any assumptions that she'll do something special and unique. You even said yourself, she's just a generic. That's not a lot to go on. Kyosei (talk) 03:29, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would sure like to see this personal attack made on your character. The only personal insults I see getting thrown around are by you on me. Kyosei (talk) 03:41, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't realize another person made her page. It's now been deleted. However, you still shouldn't see this as a personal attack nonetheless. Kyosei (talk) 03:50, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't worry about making a fuss. It just means you're passionate about what you like and want to be helpful and that's a good thing. However, I don't want it be at the expense of misleading readers and giving them false impressions or getting their hopes up for something that doesn't pan out to their expectations. There are plenty of other ways you can contribute than trying to create a new page, You can start by filling in anything you know about our numerous stub articles or even writing about other Koei related things. There are plenty of English games we haven't written about yet. Kyosei (talk) 04:14, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Again don't feel sorry. As long there's an understanding everything's golden. Of course her page will be put back up if it turns out that she does something truly unique. I'll undo the lock and revert the redirect but only if we know for sure. You could try updating the Dynasty Warriors 7 and 7XL DLC pages. These things are a bit out of date with only mainly Japanese sources listed on them. Kyosei (talk) 04:33, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't have to be uber unique but at least has to be something worth noting for me to put her page back up. Something as simple as only appearing in battles with her husband for instance and only recruit-able by Wei/Jin characters. I doubt this will be the case though as generics in Empires games can and will serve any faction regardless of their historical affiliations/background. It's just the nature of these games. And yes, I'd combine the info from both the page you made and Humble Novice. I don't know how else to console you other than to say again to try not to feel too bad about it. What's done is done and there's no use dwelling on it. Kyosei (talk) 05:05, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

According to the original message, this voice will be almost no different from the other edit character female voices. It be the same voice actress using a slightly different tone. Again we still don't know what she's going to do. With playable character announcements we at least get three sentences about their personality and story and an voice actor cred. We don't even have that much yet. Kyosei (talk) 22:37, July 19, 2012 (UTC)